I agree because, well, name one modern bourgeois state that hasn't "gotten away with it" when so many other bourgeois states line up behind it. I suspect something decisive will only happen if, like the fascist Axis powers, Israel "veers out of its lane" and pisses off enough those at the top.
(Remember: nothing happened to Franco and his goons until, what, the late 60s/early 70s? And even then it was only a gentle push out of power and >poof!< all the fascist scum miraculously disappear.)
And by the way, Yasha: stop saying crap like this:
"My fellows Jews"
Your "fellow Jews" aren't a monolithic bloc when it comes to Israel. In your post on the history of Zionism, you made an excellent point about its existence:
"This ancient zionism can be ignored or re-interpreted and transferred into an abstracted spiritual realm…but it’s still there, _ready to be used any time_." (emphasis mine)
That this ideological weapon gets grabbed and wielded by (modern, right-wing) Jews from time to time has nothing to do with you (certainly not any more than you want it to be). That the weapon got taken up means it can be set down, taken away, buried, or destroyed. It can also be refused to be shoved into a hand that doesn't want to wield it.
The problem is not religion as such but rather how that particular tool gets used and by whom.
Seems plausible. I know on a personal level everyone around me is busy fighting budget cuts, legal losses and other relatively minor problems that if left uncontested would never the less make people's lives and jobs untenable. In the past the existence of international Communist movements, whatever we might think of them, did provide some balance of power. Now, there is no overarching movement to push back against anything. Everyone is on their own, Palestinians are on their own. This will probably change, we can all do our part to make it change, but in the near term I see nothing on the horizon. I'm an old commie myself but that ain't coming back anytime soon as a movement powerful enough to topple or thwart nations. Love to be wrong but if I had to bet I'd say they get away with it.
Even the alternative "dissident" media in the West has to a good degree 'moved on'... It's sad. There are some sites still documenting the daily massacres you mentioned, and some Substack writers still reminding up about the ongoing atrocity. But now more than at any point since October 8 of last year, you really have to go out of your way to find them.
I agree; they've basically already gotten away with it. Once you can commit that level of slaughter and ethnic cleansing for more than a year, it's really only a matter of remaining time.
And we won't go lossless in the "free and democratic" west either. American colleges and universities, in conjunction with Zionists (both Xtian and Jewish) and governments are the vanguard in restricting freedom of speech, it's far worse and for much longer in the EU and UK. Then there's the self-censorship in media and all the rest. We likely won't be able to speak out without incurring harm to ourselves when the *next* genocide comes along.
Americans have no power domestically — over everyday issues like cost of living and healthcare. You think Americans can possibly have any power over what the empire does to foreigners thousands of miles away? Put another way: International solidarity is useless when you have zero power domestically.
What I was trying to say is that very soon we won't even be able to *talk about it* honestly or critically in any venue with what they deem to have a sufficient number of eyes or ears on it. The genocide and ability to commit future genocides without the 'discomfort' of having to answer (or pretend to answer) questions about it isn't a risk Empire is willing to brook anymore.
In the not too distant future, they need to be able to turn all of us into Gazans if "needed."
P.S. I don't disagree we have no power domestically, either. Studies have proven it!
Yeah I actually disagree a little here. The ability to express outrage and criticism — even in limited and proscribed ways — is a very powerful control mechanism, giving people a release valve and making them think they are doing something.
Seeing how it is and was handled in Russia/Ussr, I think its one of the things that makes this society so stable.
I mean…Think about all the info about Gaza and the genocide on the Internet…it’s there. Doesnt change anything. I wrote a little about it.
I fully get what you're saying now. It's akin to the Chomsky (someone I have a lot of respect for, but who has also disappointed me profoundly) concept of the limited frame for debate but having said debate in a 'lively' and 'open' seeming way.
I still don't agree if you're implying that freedom of speech, even with limited or zero actual power to affect our governance, is not extremely important. It also reminds me of a saying about/within China that while you [and your speech] don't have a choice of political party, you do have the ability to influence policy. It's the opposite here in the "free and democratic" west.
activists now having to factor in risk of not just getting roughed up by cops and fanatics and jail time, but also potential denaturalization and deportation
The deliberate use of Jews as scapegoats by historical non jewish rulers is so common as to require no mention. When surveying all the myriad flavors of conspiracy theory running wild on the net, a newer variant on that meme was apparent, re: The alleged "black nobility" having a deliberate policy to do just that in their various activities.
Nothing is new under the sun and the same old shit keeps coming around, like wiping your ass on a Hulahoop.
I think you are right but the myth of Israel for many people is irreparably damaged which is significant. They need a continual influx of settlers, do you think a lot of people want to move there?
The only thing that has me thinking Israel might be pushing their luck is trying to portray Ireland as antisemitic and withdrawing their embassy. This could, though unlikely, lead to a backlash if Israel continues to escalate as Ireland is so culturally important to many Americans who still have familial links to the country.
The scenario where Israel doesn't get away with it is WW3, or 4 depending on your perspective. But it's not so much as,"they got away with it" as it is,"we're all going to suffer from their decisions."
Gaza is done. I agree. The main remaining question is how about the larger project of dominating the whole area. Here Israel’s main pitfall, if there is one, will be hubris. Will they go too far. In other words will they try and take out Iran. Unless Netanyahu can get the US to nuke Iran any attack will be very costly to Israel. I personally believe that Iran’s hits on Israel were effective and they could level much of the country if Israel attacks them. Indeed, even-if US nukes Iran the Iranians may be able to hit back at Israel and the gulf oil. So, this would be costly. But my impression is that Israel no longer reckons costs. Messianism is the flavor of the month. And hence the problem of hubris. But if Israel resists this move, then they could get most of what they have wanted for the last 75 years, since Ben Gurion launched the modern Zionist enterprise. Horrible, but very very possible.
I spent a couple of hours at the Armenian Holocaust website seeing what the Turks got away with. Yeah, Israel is going to get away with it. Perhaps some of the Gaza Holocaust creators will reach a similar fate as the Turkish ones.
I agree because, well, name one modern bourgeois state that hasn't "gotten away with it" when so many other bourgeois states line up behind it. I suspect something decisive will only happen if, like the fascist Axis powers, Israel "veers out of its lane" and pisses off enough those at the top.
(Remember: nothing happened to Franco and his goons until, what, the late 60s/early 70s? And even then it was only a gentle push out of power and >poof!< all the fascist scum miraculously disappear.)
And by the way, Yasha: stop saying crap like this:
"My fellows Jews"
Your "fellow Jews" aren't a monolithic bloc when it comes to Israel. In your post on the history of Zionism, you made an excellent point about its existence:
"This ancient zionism can be ignored or re-interpreted and transferred into an abstracted spiritual realm…but it’s still there, _ready to be used any time_." (emphasis mine)
That this ideological weapon gets grabbed and wielded by (modern, right-wing) Jews from time to time has nothing to do with you (certainly not any more than you want it to be). That the weapon got taken up means it can be set down, taken away, buried, or destroyed. It can also be refused to be shoved into a hand that doesn't want to wield it.
The problem is not religion as such but rather how that particular tool gets used and by whom.
thanks. yeah well that line is more tongue in cheek than anything else.
Nevertheless . . . .
Evil seems to always win no matter what
yeah :(
The one hope is that there’s a choice to be evil - a choice we rarely go the other way on.
Seems plausible. I know on a personal level everyone around me is busy fighting budget cuts, legal losses and other relatively minor problems that if left uncontested would never the less make people's lives and jobs untenable. In the past the existence of international Communist movements, whatever we might think of them, did provide some balance of power. Now, there is no overarching movement to push back against anything. Everyone is on their own, Palestinians are on their own. This will probably change, we can all do our part to make it change, but in the near term I see nothing on the horizon. I'm an old commie myself but that ain't coming back anytime soon as a movement powerful enough to topple or thwart nations. Love to be wrong but if I had to bet I'd say they get away with it.
Even the alternative "dissident" media in the West has to a good degree 'moved on'... It's sad. There are some sites still documenting the daily massacres you mentioned, and some Substack writers still reminding up about the ongoing atrocity. But now more than at any point since October 8 of last year, you really have to go out of your way to find them.
I agree; they've basically already gotten away with it. Once you can commit that level of slaughter and ethnic cleansing for more than a year, it's really only a matter of remaining time.
And we won't go lossless in the "free and democratic" west either. American colleges and universities, in conjunction with Zionists (both Xtian and Jewish) and governments are the vanguard in restricting freedom of speech, it's far worse and for much longer in the EU and UK. Then there's the self-censorship in media and all the rest. We likely won't be able to speak out without incurring harm to ourselves when the *next* genocide comes along.
Americans have no power domestically — over everyday issues like cost of living and healthcare. You think Americans can possibly have any power over what the empire does to foreigners thousands of miles away? Put another way: International solidarity is useless when you have zero power domestically.
What I was trying to say is that very soon we won't even be able to *talk about it* honestly or critically in any venue with what they deem to have a sufficient number of eyes or ears on it. The genocide and ability to commit future genocides without the 'discomfort' of having to answer (or pretend to answer) questions about it isn't a risk Empire is willing to brook anymore.
In the not too distant future, they need to be able to turn all of us into Gazans if "needed."
P.S. I don't disagree we have no power domestically, either. Studies have proven it!
Yeah I actually disagree a little here. The ability to express outrage and criticism — even in limited and proscribed ways — is a very powerful control mechanism, giving people a release valve and making them think they are doing something.
Seeing how it is and was handled in Russia/Ussr, I think its one of the things that makes this society so stable.
I mean…Think about all the info about Gaza and the genocide on the Internet…it’s there. Doesnt change anything. I wrote a little about it.
https://yasha.substack.com/p/gaza-and-the-death-of-information
I'll withhold a "like" until I can process that but you have never led me astray. At the same time I *think* we do have a disagreement.
I respect your decision.
I fully get what you're saying now. It's akin to the Chomsky (someone I have a lot of respect for, but who has also disappointed me profoundly) concept of the limited frame for debate but having said debate in a 'lively' and 'open' seeming way.
I still don't agree if you're implying that freedom of speech, even with limited or zero actual power to affect our governance, is not extremely important. It also reminds me of a saying about/within China that while you [and your speech] don't have a choice of political party, you do have the ability to influence policy. It's the opposite here in the "free and democratic" west.
activists now having to factor in risk of not just getting roughed up by cops and fanatics and jail time, but also potential denaturalization and deportation
I think you may be right. I also think this horror of history will redound back on Israel at some point in a much, much worse way.
Agree. Reminds me of the last few lines of a [cough cough] prophetic song I wrote:
One day you’ll stop being useful
And it’ll be too late to repent.
Then you’ll be all alone
Exhausted and spent
Your friends will throw you to the wolves
And blame all their crimes on you
You’ll scream and plead to no avail
They’ll cage you like in a zoo
They’ll point at you and then they’ll say…
Look at these Christ killers.
Look at these Jews.
https://x.com/yashalevine/status/1855251251568452013
@Yasha Levine
The deliberate use of Jews as scapegoats by historical non jewish rulers is so common as to require no mention. When surveying all the myriad flavors of conspiracy theory running wild on the net, a newer variant on that meme was apparent, re: The alleged "black nobility" having a deliberate policy to do just that in their various activities.
Nothing is new under the sun and the same old shit keeps coming around, like wiping your ass on a Hulahoop.
I've stumbled onto some of this "black nobility" crap and I think it usually ends up having some association with Jews, Jesuits and the Sicarii too.
Still trying to wrap my mind around how to get the hula hoop moving in the proper orientation for that task...
Send the Hulahoop to a String Cheese Incident show, at least it might be put to a more amusing use there?
https://youtu.be/lC5jdNXKikU?si=plkxOctI7z1Bjm3u
LOL! All I could think of when watching that was "bread and circuses is a real thing."
I think you are right but the myth of Israel for many people is irreparably damaged which is significant. They need a continual influx of settlers, do you think a lot of people want to move there?
The only thing that has me thinking Israel might be pushing their luck is trying to portray Ireland as antisemitic and withdrawing their embassy. This could, though unlikely, lead to a backlash if Israel continues to escalate as Ireland is so culturally important to many Americans who still have familial links to the country.
The scenario where Israel doesn't get away with it is WW3, or 4 depending on your perspective. But it's not so much as,"they got away with it" as it is,"we're all going to suffer from their decisions."
I 100% agree.
Gaza is done. I agree. The main remaining question is how about the larger project of dominating the whole area. Here Israel’s main pitfall, if there is one, will be hubris. Will they go too far. In other words will they try and take out Iran. Unless Netanyahu can get the US to nuke Iran any attack will be very costly to Israel. I personally believe that Iran’s hits on Israel were effective and they could level much of the country if Israel attacks them. Indeed, even-if US nukes Iran the Iranians may be able to hit back at Israel and the gulf oil. So, this would be costly. But my impression is that Israel no longer reckons costs. Messianism is the flavor of the month. And hence the problem of hubris. But if Israel resists this move, then they could get most of what they have wanted for the last 75 years, since Ben Gurion launched the modern Zionist enterprise. Horrible, but very very possible.
I spent a couple of hours at the Armenian Holocaust website seeing what the Turks got away with. Yeah, Israel is going to get away with it. Perhaps some of the Gaza Holocaust creators will reach a similar fate as the Turkish ones.
I first learned about the Armenian genocide from a small center in Watertown, MA, a small town next to Cambridge. https://www.acecwatertown.org/
Perhaps I shouldn't be surprised to have not learned this history as part of lessons on WWI and the Ottoman's, but I was.
The Palestinians seem destined to suffer an even worse date, with their history only preserved by their diaspora.
Out of ignorance I ask: Do you have some suggestions for where I can learn about the Karma suffered by the Turkish genociders?
http://www.genocide-museum.am/eng/index.php