For the first half hour we talk about the Ukrainian war and the attempted assassination of Russian novelist Zakhar Prilepin. Then we move on to our main discussion: Mary Harrington’s Feminism Against Progress. We were hoping to extract something positive out of this thing, instead we got a book so weird and incoherent and badly written it was actually funny. Separation of sexes, joyless procreation, medieval-style peasant nuclear families built on solemn duty…it’s all there in her utopia.
This was a great discussion. I'm reading Mary's book now and have watched many hours of her talking on various YouTube channels. The book came out earlier in the UK, so Mary was on the podcast circuit here a bit earlier. It was so interesting to hear your take. I'm a bit low in self-esteem, so much so that I tend to believe what I read, regardless of who says it. So having critiques like yours is super valuable to me. I'm only 50 pages in to the book, but I know Mary's take from all the interviews I've watched. A discussion with all three of you would be amazing to hear!
Oh wth..might as well be killed for a sheep as a lamb.
Following up on Mary Harrington's utopia with my own theories on what might make life less hellish for some of us..
I get the feeling that even as weed is legalized and psychedelics are normalized more sanely, the same inane anti govt (except where the govt is either authoritarian/faux populist or corrupt) attitudes dominate from a type of pro-business and anti regulation lobby.
They might like private prisons or exclusively for profit funded prison reform from sports billionaires or Niantic, but not anything more humane because it is some fucked up and fraudulent notion of what constitutes intelligence, capability or honesty.
Your colleague David Golumbia had a great oped about it in Medium-something to the effect of "Do you oppose bad technology or democracy?"
I am myself so jaded that I don't think in absolutes anymore-sometimes that makes for a more nuanced worldview...sometimes it is just more like a hostage situation where you hold your nose and accept large big tech co.s you basically distrust, with their hypocritical and broken notions of intelligence, competence and money.
I mean I am friendly with say my vegan small businesses and try to get to know the people I buy prescription mj or shrooms from, but at the end of the day you simply cannot know every delivery company or company in the supply chain.
So this notion that there should be no non-authoritarian or uncorrupted (read doesn't give a shit about many of us; will exploit us and one cannot have "strong opinions" or any opinions that are not ..I don't even fucking know) govt oversight and only gaming or entertainment or sports is messed up.
David Golumbia got it exactly..it is democracy that is not desireable in the cyberlibertarian narrative.
And everything should always be punitive, hostile and discouraging. It is a fucking shitty worldview..all plausible deniability and ransomware adjacent. Which then projects when people get indignant.
Anyway thanks for reading you two. I know you would not exploit me or fail to get what I am saying. I have been ranting here for a while.
I am glad journalists like Yasha and commentators like Evegenia still exist. You guys get nuance as I think of it...I am not talking about ww2 with these fuckers..it is just that..there is so much off balance with some of them...
Palo Alto for instance (which is your next show I plan to listen to) is just awful. They have that attitude in spades and they spread it around...
Interesting show guys-your podcasts are really fun and I was never into podcasts..
The Mary Harrington portion proved too boring to soldier through though :-/. I gotta hand it to you guys for wading through her stuff..I have seen it on unherd and it is pretty unreadable except for this one creepy interview she had with Thiel on how progress is terrible. It was interesting how Thiel was almost neutral on Thunberg in that transcript...that surprised me.
I wish transcripts were available for these..the insider view of Russian politics is really fascinating, but I keep missing the names of the people...
I enjoyed and learnt a lot about Mary Harrington's book. I won't be buying her book after your incisive review. Her views on USSR sounds typical of ignorant conservative and liberal Anglos. I bet she lives a privileged life in a Third World country making land unaffordable for ordinary locals. I bet she won't support progressive movements for political change in the Third World country she lives in. I discovered online she blogs for the Social Democratic Party (SDP) in the UK that sought to oppose progressive policies of the Labour left in 1980s by breaking away. Laughingly the SDP calls it self "The SDP is a patriotic, economically left-leaning, and culturally traditional political party." Total BS, they were spoilers for the right. See https://sdp.org.uk/author/mary-harrington/ They were pro-US liberal spoilers, certainly not left. The majority joined with the UK Liberals to form the Liberal Democrats (that has seats in the UK Parliament) and a handful carried on this unknown (to most in UK) fringe party - I never knew it existed anymore until this episode.
I was a bit uncomfortable with the first part of the episode, I guess because I am not Russian. I can't see the assassination of writers or reporters (whatever their politics) as acceptable. Dugin lost his young daughter as a result of an assassination attempt on him and that makes me deeply uncomfortable and sympathetic for his loss. He did not deserve it. I am sure you did not mean your views to be interpreted as I have done.
This was a great discussion. I'm reading Mary's book now and have watched many hours of her talking on various YouTube channels. The book came out earlier in the UK, so Mary was on the podcast circuit here a bit earlier. It was so interesting to hear your take. I'm a bit low in self-esteem, so much so that I tend to believe what I read, regardless of who says it. So having critiques like yours is super valuable to me. I'm only 50 pages in to the book, but I know Mary's take from all the interviews I've watched. A discussion with all three of you would be amazing to hear!
Thanks! Wildly incisive, funny, alternately savagely dismissive and even-handed, duet. Never, like its target, taking itself overbearingly seriously.
Oh wth..might as well be killed for a sheep as a lamb.
Following up on Mary Harrington's utopia with my own theories on what might make life less hellish for some of us..
I get the feeling that even as weed is legalized and psychedelics are normalized more sanely, the same inane anti govt (except where the govt is either authoritarian/faux populist or corrupt) attitudes dominate from a type of pro-business and anti regulation lobby.
They might like private prisons or exclusively for profit funded prison reform from sports billionaires or Niantic, but not anything more humane because it is some fucked up and fraudulent notion of what constitutes intelligence, capability or honesty.
Your colleague David Golumbia had a great oped about it in Medium-something to the effect of "Do you oppose bad technology or democracy?"
I am myself so jaded that I don't think in absolutes anymore-sometimes that makes for a more nuanced worldview...sometimes it is just more like a hostage situation where you hold your nose and accept large big tech co.s you basically distrust, with their hypocritical and broken notions of intelligence, competence and money.
I mean I am friendly with say my vegan small businesses and try to get to know the people I buy prescription mj or shrooms from, but at the end of the day you simply cannot know every delivery company or company in the supply chain.
So this notion that there should be no non-authoritarian or uncorrupted (read doesn't give a shit about many of us; will exploit us and one cannot have "strong opinions" or any opinions that are not ..I don't even fucking know) govt oversight and only gaming or entertainment or sports is messed up.
David Golumbia got it exactly..it is democracy that is not desireable in the cyberlibertarian narrative.
And everything should always be punitive, hostile and discouraging. It is a fucking shitty worldview..all plausible deniability and ransomware adjacent. Which then projects when people get indignant.
Anyway thanks for reading you two. I know you would not exploit me or fail to get what I am saying. I have been ranting here for a while.
I am glad journalists like Yasha and commentators like Evegenia still exist. You guys get nuance as I think of it...I am not talking about ww2 with these fuckers..it is just that..there is so much off balance with some of them...
Palo Alto for instance (which is your next show I plan to listen to) is just awful. They have that attitude in spades and they spread it around...
Interesting show guys-your podcasts are really fun and I was never into podcasts..
The Mary Harrington portion proved too boring to soldier through though :-/. I gotta hand it to you guys for wading through her stuff..I have seen it on unherd and it is pretty unreadable except for this one creepy interview she had with Thiel on how progress is terrible. It was interesting how Thiel was almost neutral on Thunberg in that transcript...that surprised me.
I wish transcripts were available for these..the insider view of Russian politics is really fascinating, but I keep missing the names of the people...
I enjoyed and learnt a lot about Mary Harrington's book. I won't be buying her book after your incisive review. Her views on USSR sounds typical of ignorant conservative and liberal Anglos. I bet she lives a privileged life in a Third World country making land unaffordable for ordinary locals. I bet she won't support progressive movements for political change in the Third World country she lives in. I discovered online she blogs for the Social Democratic Party (SDP) in the UK that sought to oppose progressive policies of the Labour left in 1980s by breaking away. Laughingly the SDP calls it self "The SDP is a patriotic, economically left-leaning, and culturally traditional political party." Total BS, they were spoilers for the right. See https://sdp.org.uk/author/mary-harrington/ They were pro-US liberal spoilers, certainly not left. The majority joined with the UK Liberals to form the Liberal Democrats (that has seats in the UK Parliament) and a handful carried on this unknown (to most in UK) fringe party - I never knew it existed anymore until this episode.
I was a bit uncomfortable with the first part of the episode, I guess because I am not Russian. I can't see the assassination of writers or reporters (whatever their politics) as acceptable. Dugin lost his young daughter as a result of an assassination attempt on him and that makes me deeply uncomfortable and sympathetic for his loss. He did not deserve it. I am sure you did not mean your views to be interpreted as I have done.