I think the concept of Hell as infinite, eternal, and horrific is cross-pollinated (so to speak) from Christianity. As in Christianity, Gehinnom is supposed to keep Jews in line. We have Sheol, which seems to be like an eternal bus ride with no destination, but on which you can still be happy. You get sprung in 11 months. If you want to read about the full Christian phenomenon of Hell, James Joyce's "Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man" includes a tour-de-force exposition. I think it's better than the Puritan "fire and brimstone" sermons.
It’s probably not a coincidence, then, that Zionism is hostile to Yiddish (in favor of Modern Hebrew). Destroying diaspora Jewishness is kind of their entire schtick.
(Successfully destroying the Palestinians would be undesirable, then, because without the threat of multiculturalism, how would Israel keep the Jewish diaspora in line?!?)
Nope, but there are various sources, including Jewish scholars, that cite historical facts and documentation saying exactly that.
To be clear, Netanyahu was claiming, in 1986, that zionist terrorism was ok (superior!) because it led to the establishment of western, modern institutions (democracy!!!) and economics that the local ("backward") Arab culture couldn't. The problem is that almost 40 years later, such Israeli institutions are corrupt and dysfunctional, and are regressing to their own form of seductive tribalism, which Eric Weinstein calls the "totalizing Abyss".
Want to be accused [incorrectly, absurdly] of wanting to murder Jews by a low IQ ultra zionist goon? Cite the wikipedia article on the Nakba (which simply cites the most well known historical accounts of what Israel's founding terrorist-zionists in British Mandatory Palestine were recorded doing, mostly in Jewish sources) and the fact that Jewish Renewal Rabbi Michael Lerner received death threats from "right wing" ultra zionists for his work on Israel/Palestine peace activism.
That happened in a facebook discussion group about Ken Wilber's Integral Theory, which claims to give people a method of meta-narrative analysis that transcends tribalism AND the left-vs-right narrative.
On a separate item: the Triggernometry podcast with Sam Harris and Eric Weinstein was itself a good example of a deeply confused secular Jew (Harris) getting angry with another secular Jew (Weinstein), that used his own form of meta-narrative analysis to claim that Harris is getting "invited into the Abyss" by the "totalizing" mindsets of Hamas, Trump, etc.
That sums up the problem, or at least the part of the problem rooted in archetypal-evolutionary psychology (see Warby of Oz), of an insane colonialist outpost of western imperialism claiming to be "superior" to the local, "backward" Arab culture that did actually historically oppress middle eastern Jews, and thus able to excuse any violence toward by the "superior" colonialists toward resistance by the local, "backward" people (including collateral damage such as killing Christian Arabs in Gaza like Justin Amash's younger sisters).
To be clear: the historical oppression of Jews in the middle east wasn't done by the local Arab/muslim peasants or nomads (although they probably had no reason to protest the oppression), it was done by the Ottoman Empire and other decaying muslim Dynasties, corrupt mullas/dervishes, etc.
my guess is that it is more likely a well organized zionist/AIPAC type operation to put critics, dissidents and non-conformists in a database and then turn loose an AIPAC tr0ll and AI chat bot army on them.
it will be interesting if they show up in your substack. their rhetoric is almost always very stupid and toxic, but cleverly designed to be emotionally manipulative (mirror image of the same "Cluster B" stuff that "woke" cargo cult zombies use).
“What’s a Substack feed?” I ask as someone who only ever opens the Substack app or website to leave comments.
(I use email and RSS instead. If you want paywalled Substack content over RSS, the iOS and Mac app Newsify lets you use your Substack login credentials for full-text support, via the login cookie, since Substack has no public API. There are probably similar apps on other platforms.)
Substack has been infiltrated by zionist thugs (AIPAC tr0llz/b0tz or something like that) for a while, I first noticed it in the comments section of Bari Weiss' substack. I don't know if they are just the zionist version of the standard tr0ll/b0t armies, or if zionists are in the investor pool and/or management of substack, or both.
The zionist b0tz showed up, disguised as “anti-woke” types, also frequently as USA “conservatives”, in all of the major substacks that are anti-woke (IDW), such as Greenwald, Taibbi, Weiss, etc.
I got banned by FAIR, a supposed liberal-centrist, "diverse" alternative to "woke", so it looks like zionists made a very large donation to FAIR. (fairforall.org)
Zionists have been funding right wing Christian evangelical churches in the USA for decades, specifically to turn them toward pro-zionist ideology, some of which is pure theological insanity.
Given that the USA govt lavishly funds the zionist war machine and other elements in Israel, that seems like a violation of the principle of the separation of Church and State.
Perhaps the greater paradox was that Victorian England's leading Christian Zionist had been encouraged and confirmed in his restorationist views by Jewish converts who were far more zealous in the Zionist cause than most of their fellow Jews.
I know but it is very interesting that a Protestant guy would be so invested. I am listening to videos by Russian speakers from Israel. They believe that the arrival of heifers is a sign that Israelis plan to build the temple. Hopefully, they are wrong.
re: nuke the bad door jamb star worshiping ancient arab ancestors
I came across a facebook archeology group about 15 years ago that discussed various projects including USA Christian evangelicals going on archeological field trips to Israel. One of their obsessions was unearthing the door jambs of ancient star worshipers and measuring which stars the door jambs pointed toward on the days that many ancient cultures thought were of astronomical and Kosmic significance (similar to Stonehenge, seasonal solar minimum/maximums).
These groups were desperate to find archeological evidence that the "bad" star worshipers associated with door jambs pointing to the "evil" stars on astronomically significant days of the year were the ancient ancestors of arab-semites-muslims, and the "good" star worshipers were the ancestors of Jews.
The purpose of that was to provide justification of the use of nuclear weapons to use in mass executions of arab-muslims, or muslims in general.
That is the level of depraved, evil, scientifically illiterate insanity that is not unusual in ultra zionist thug groups.
The generalized form of that is the problem that ALL universalist ideologies and theologies (especially meta-narrative myths, including renunciate, contemplative myths) are historically rooted in some specific culture and language of origin that is burdened by a "particular" archetypal-evolutionary psychology.
A number of social scientists think that communism is a Christian heresy, and that it shares the tendency of Christianity (Islam does the same thing) to launch missionary projects to impose its archetypal psychology, values, religion and economic system on other cultures, regardless of incompatibility ("cultural impedance mismatch").
As Karl Jaspers and Karen Armstrong noted, there are some generalized archetypal similarities between the "Axial", renunciate-contemplative myths, religions and traditions, which Max Weber called "world denying love" (Liebesakosmismus).
In evolutionary psychology, such contemplative awareness appears to have emerged as an adaptation to the increasing complexity of agrarian city states and the need for ideologies that encouraged the inhabitants of such cities, especially slaves and peasants, to transcend their tribal origins to form a greater unity of shared purpose and meaning (that was militarily and politically advantageous vs enemy "pagan" marauders).
In that context, the contradiction between ethno-linguistic "nationalism" and universalizing myths can be resolved. But the problem remains that no such universalizing myths have ever been able to actually transcend their tribal, ethno-linguistic origins and limits.
Judaism and Christianty are agrarian city-state monotheistic myths.
Islam is a pastoral-nomadic monotheistic myth.
Their tribal origins are in different archetypal social, economic and ecological forms, and as such each of their universalizing paradigms remain in conflict at the deepest levels because evolution is about survival adaptations at the base of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. The cultural abstractions (such as universalism) at the top of the hierarchy can't exist without a "tribal" base to rest on.
Thus, some social theorists, futurists and evolutionary psychologists have proposed that there is a fifth level (Robert Kegan) or something like that, of evolved psychological archetypes, beyond tribalism, beyond mythic archetypes, beyond scientific rationalism, beyond postmodern pluralism-relativism. So, at Kegan stage-5, it should become possible for universal contemplative awareness to get closer to actually being universal by "transcending but including" previous archetypes/levels.
I think the concept of Hell as infinite, eternal, and horrific is cross-pollinated (so to speak) from Christianity. As in Christianity, Gehinnom is supposed to keep Jews in line. We have Sheol, which seems to be like an eternal bus ride with no destination, but on which you can still be happy. You get sprung in 11 months. If you want to read about the full Christian phenomenon of Hell, James Joyce's "Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man" includes a tour-de-force exposition. I think it's better than the Puritan "fire and brimstone" sermons.
It’s probably not a coincidence, then, that Zionism is hostile to Yiddish (in favor of Modern Hebrew). Destroying diaspora Jewishness is kind of their entire schtick.
(Successfully destroying the Palestinians would be undesirable, then, because without the threat of multiculturalism, how would Israel keep the Jewish diaspora in line?!?)
(Something something shlilat ha’golah…)
What do you think about the red heifers' arrival in Jerusalem? https://allisrael.com/red-heifer-sacrifice-could-take-place-in-about-a-year-in-jerusalem
https://twitter.com/dancohen3000/status/713772258511032320?t=xufZ8ackz-bTFmflYRK7sg&s=19
Netanyahu admits that Israel is a terrorist state, 1986, Firing Line, Wm F Buckley, Jr.:
https://www.pbssocal.org/shows/firing-line/episodes/bret-stephens-xu3cz9
Have you read this? https://www.marcusbooks.com/book/9781566560689
Nope, but there are various sources, including Jewish scholars, that cite historical facts and documentation saying exactly that.
To be clear, Netanyahu was claiming, in 1986, that zionist terrorism was ok (superior!) because it led to the establishment of western, modern institutions (democracy!!!) and economics that the local ("backward") Arab culture couldn't. The problem is that almost 40 years later, such Israeli institutions are corrupt and dysfunctional, and are regressing to their own form of seductive tribalism, which Eric Weinstein calls the "totalizing Abyss".
Hey Yasha - the link to the Jerusalem Post op-ed at the Wayback Machine is broken.
Disregard. I tried clicking on it straight from the email and it appended the substack email tags at the end. Was able to access it from this site.
Want to be accused [incorrectly, absurdly] of wanting to murder Jews by a low IQ ultra zionist goon? Cite the wikipedia article on the Nakba (which simply cites the most well known historical accounts of what Israel's founding terrorist-zionists in British Mandatory Palestine were recorded doing, mostly in Jewish sources) and the fact that Jewish Renewal Rabbi Michael Lerner received death threats from "right wing" ultra zionists for his work on Israel/Palestine peace activism.
That happened in a facebook discussion group about Ken Wilber's Integral Theory, which claims to give people a method of meta-narrative analysis that transcends tribalism AND the left-vs-right narrative.
On a separate item: the Triggernometry podcast with Sam Harris and Eric Weinstein was itself a good example of a deeply confused secular Jew (Harris) getting angry with another secular Jew (Weinstein), that used his own form of meta-narrative analysis to claim that Harris is getting "invited into the Abyss" by the "totalizing" mindsets of Hamas, Trump, etc.
That sums up the problem, or at least the part of the problem rooted in archetypal-evolutionary psychology (see Warby of Oz), of an insane colonialist outpost of western imperialism claiming to be "superior" to the local, "backward" Arab culture that did actually historically oppress middle eastern Jews, and thus able to excuse any violence toward by the "superior" colonialists toward resistance by the local, "backward" people (including collateral damage such as killing Christian Arabs in Gaza like Justin Amash's younger sisters).
Interesting comments. Thanks.
Nakba described by wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_expulsion_and_flight
And:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world
To be clear: the historical oppression of Jews in the middle east wasn't done by the local Arab/muslim peasants or nomads (although they probably had no reason to protest the oppression), it was done by the Ottoman Empire and other decaying muslim Dynasties, corrupt mullas/dervishes, etc.
Warby of Oz on the evolutionary-archetypal psychology of the middle east, pastoralists vs agrarians:
https://www.lorenzofromoz.net/p/in-the-shadow-of-empire
and
https://www.lorenzofromoz.net/p/hamas-displays-a-muslim-way-of-war
weird so substack is doing algorithmic shit too? ugh.
my guess is that it is more likely a well organized zionist/AIPAC type operation to put critics, dissidents and non-conformists in a database and then turn loose an AIPAC tr0ll and AI chat bot army on them.
it will be interesting if they show up in your substack. their rhetoric is almost always very stupid and toxic, but cleverly designed to be emotionally manipulative (mirror image of the same "Cluster B" stuff that "woke" cargo cult zombies use).
“What’s a Substack feed?” I ask as someone who only ever opens the Substack app or website to leave comments.
(I use email and RSS instead. If you want paywalled Substack content over RSS, the iOS and Mac app Newsify lets you use your Substack login credentials for full-text support, via the login cookie, since Substack has no public API. There are probably similar apps on other platforms.)
What’s a “social media home feed”? 🙃
Substack has been infiltrated by zionist thugs (AIPAC tr0llz/b0tz or something like that) for a while, I first noticed it in the comments section of Bari Weiss' substack. I don't know if they are just the zionist version of the standard tr0ll/b0t armies, or if zionists are in the investor pool and/or management of substack, or both.
The zionist b0tz showed up, disguised as “anti-woke” types, also frequently as USA “conservatives”, in all of the major substacks that are anti-woke (IDW), such as Greenwald, Taibbi, Weiss, etc.
I got banned by FAIR, a supposed liberal-centrist, "diverse" alternative to "woke", so it looks like zionists made a very large donation to FAIR. (fairforall.org)
Zionists have been funding right wing Christian evangelical churches in the USA for decades, specifically to turn them toward pro-zionist ideology, some of which is pure theological insanity.
Given that the USA govt lavishly funds the zionist war machine and other elements in Israel, that seems like a violation of the principle of the separation of Church and State.
Christian Zionism predates Jewish Zionism.
these just seem like a bunch of medieval religious lunatics with weirdly common goals.
who was "first" by a few decades in the 1700s doesn't seem very relevant to anything now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism_in_the_United_Kingdom
excerpt:
Perhaps the greater paradox was that Victorian England's leading Christian Zionist had been encouraged and confirmed in his restorationist views by Jewish converts who were far more zealous in the Zionist cause than most of their fellow Jews.
Exactly, Christian Zionists supported and instructed Theodor Herzl. I am wondering who is instructed Netanyahu nowadays.
Raytheon
proof? definitions?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPGlgz1zC-4
This Texan really wants the veil to be lifted: https://allisrael.com/red-heifer-sacrifice-could-take-place-in-about-a-year-in-jerusalem
the second link is garbage. nothing about history.
tr0ll
I know but it is very interesting that a Protestant guy would be so invested. I am listening to videos by Russian speakers from Israel. They believe that the arrival of heifers is a sign that Israelis plan to build the temple. Hopefully, they are wrong.
summarize?
re: nuke the bad door jamb star worshiping ancient arab ancestors
I came across a facebook archeology group about 15 years ago that discussed various projects including USA Christian evangelicals going on archeological field trips to Israel. One of their obsessions was unearthing the door jambs of ancient star worshipers and measuring which stars the door jambs pointed toward on the days that many ancient cultures thought were of astronomical and Kosmic significance (similar to Stonehenge, seasonal solar minimum/maximums).
These groups were desperate to find archeological evidence that the "bad" star worshipers associated with door jambs pointing to the "evil" stars on astronomically significant days of the year were the ancient ancestors of arab-semites-muslims, and the "good" star worshipers were the ancestors of Jews.
The purpose of that was to provide justification of the use of nuclear weapons to use in mass executions of arab-muslims, or muslims in general.
That is the level of depraved, evil, scientifically illiterate insanity that is not unusual in ultra zionist thug groups.
The generalized form of that is the problem that ALL universalist ideologies and theologies (especially meta-narrative myths, including renunciate, contemplative myths) are historically rooted in some specific culture and language of origin that is burdened by a "particular" archetypal-evolutionary psychology.
A number of social scientists think that communism is a Christian heresy, and that it shares the tendency of Christianity (Islam does the same thing) to launch missionary projects to impose its archetypal psychology, values, religion and economic system on other cultures, regardless of incompatibility ("cultural impedance mismatch").
As Karl Jaspers and Karen Armstrong noted, there are some generalized archetypal similarities between the "Axial", renunciate-contemplative myths, religions and traditions, which Max Weber called "world denying love" (Liebesakosmismus).
In evolutionary psychology, such contemplative awareness appears to have emerged as an adaptation to the increasing complexity of agrarian city states and the need for ideologies that encouraged the inhabitants of such cities, especially slaves and peasants, to transcend their tribal origins to form a greater unity of shared purpose and meaning (that was militarily and politically advantageous vs enemy "pagan" marauders).
In that context, the contradiction between ethno-linguistic "nationalism" and universalizing myths can be resolved. But the problem remains that no such universalizing myths have ever been able to actually transcend their tribal, ethno-linguistic origins and limits.
Judaism and Christianty are agrarian city-state monotheistic myths.
Islam is a pastoral-nomadic monotheistic myth.
Their tribal origins are in different archetypal social, economic and ecological forms, and as such each of their universalizing paradigms remain in conflict at the deepest levels because evolution is about survival adaptations at the base of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. The cultural abstractions (such as universalism) at the top of the hierarchy can't exist without a "tribal" base to rest on.
Thus, some social theorists, futurists and evolutionary psychologists have proposed that there is a fifth level (Robert Kegan) or something like that, of evolved psychological archetypes, beyond tribalism, beyond mythic archetypes, beyond scientific rationalism, beyond postmodern pluralism-relativism. So, at Kegan stage-5, it should become possible for universal contemplative awareness to get closer to actually being universal by "transcending but including" previous archetypes/levels.
re: absolutist pattern vs relativistic nebulosity
The "pattern-nebulosity" conundrum in consciousness studies maps pretty well into modern rationalism (anti-woke) vs postmodern relativism (woke).
https://meaningness.com/pattern
-
https://meaningness.com/nebulosity